Is AI actually making your build-measure-learn cycle faster, or just making your work more average? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Eric Ries, author of The Lean Startup, to revisit what's held up in Lean Startup thinking 15 years on, why AI speeds up building but can't replace human learning, and what drove Eric to write his new book, Incorruptible. Eric also shares the story of how the Long-Term Stock Exchange nearly died before it ever launched, and why Costco is the rare example of a company that figured out how to stay incorruptible. Topics we cover: - (3:48) – Lean Startup: 15 years later - (8:33) – How countercultural MVPs and pivots were - (11:02) – How AI changes build-measure-learn - (13:36) – Learning is still a human job - (15:43) – AI makes everyone's work more average - (17:39) – The Long-Term Stock Exchange story - (21:03) – How LTSE was nearly destroyed - (25:00) – A better definition of profit - (31:45) – Companies already living this way - (32:33) – The legend of Sol Price and Costco - (37:36) – Incorruptible: ethos plus integrity Links from the show: - [TinySeed SaaS Institute](https://tinyseed.com/institute) - [The SaaS Playbook](https://saasplaybook.com/) - [Incorruptible by Eric Ries](https://incorruptible.co/) - [The Lean Startup by Eric Ries](https://www.amazon.com/The-Lean-Startup-Eric-Ries-audiobook/dp/B005MM7HY8/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=157939397979&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8hwcKu-DpBGGsdY_kEOX057NSBW6Cu2OmgJId8MMjX7WT4dbVroWbZyNOD3t1ZggmeRCwvEybQc8BAXx6HWhvhpM2d0Me_eunnumnkksVQhz4NtZl6t2mA54awa6TUnG8kyYiq2U_OnbOygHM5M-qZMxXDSRxt9awAevS-ZWJOI4WXbtUfjM5tISm9rJw30CwiBVKSGYqMFi5YQM2FpIhRL4c24ZN1bYq6Gc4VYem6U.vFJ25RkOl4YGYYAo08C6GEi-3kP2LQtyPYx3aZGJWX4&dib_tag=se&hvadid=687689030394&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9211711&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=756428778499706957&hvtargid=kwd-302016865577&hydadcr=13896_13560381&keywords=the+lean+startup+eric+ries&mcid=894e43f10a893c7e956b5677c125db3d&qid=1779286624&sr=8-1) - [Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE)](https://ltse.com/) - [Eric Ries | LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/eries/) - [Eric Ries (@ericries) | X](https://x.com/ericries) If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please [submit your question](https://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/contact) for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: [iTunes](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/startups-for-the-rest-of-us/id366931951) | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/5089lJbLDOmXCvbcJzLZYj)