How does a founder actually learn the skill of product? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with Ruben Gamez of SignWell and Bidsketch to answer listener questions that turned into a much deeper conversation than expected. They cover why friction works well for one of Ruben's products and kills conversions on the other, how to think about trial length and onboarding when users need more time, and what it actually takes to develop product instincts as a bootstrapped founder. Want to get your question answered? [Drop it here.](https://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/contact) Topics we cover: - (4:00) – Friction in trial funnels: Bidsketch vs. SignWell - (8:26) – When to test friction vs. trust your gut - (10:44) – Testing with low volume - (16:56) – Trial length for project management SaaS - (18:47) – How do you learn product? - (21:39) – How Ruben developed product sense on the job - (23:21) – The two core product skills bootstrappers actually need - (29:42) – Product management vs. UX - (31:46) – Why product sense doesn't transfer between products - (34:07) – How fast you can build product sense Links from the show: - [SaaS Institute Cancun Retreat](https://tinyseed.com/saas-institute) – Dec 5-7, 2026, exclusively for 7 & 8 figure SaaS founders | Waitlist: tracy@tinyseed.com - Sponsorship inquiries: sponsors@tinyseed.com - [TinySeed SaaS Institute](https://tinyseed.com/institute) - [Shreyas Doshi Product Sense Course](https://shreyasdoshi.com/) - [Shreyas Doshi on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@ShreyasDoshiVideos) - [Ep 15 - Strategy Session | The Offsite Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/episode/4EFrslnglJXhDgp8CRGiNe) - [The Panel Podcast](https://panelpodcast.com/) - [SignWell](https://signwell.com/) - [Bidsketch](https://www.bidsketch.com/) - [Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X](https://x.com/earthlingworks) If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you'd like for us to cover, please [submit your question](https://www.startupsfortherestofus.com/contact) for an upcoming episode. We'd love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: [iTunes](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/startups-for-the-rest-of-us/id366931951) | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/5089lJbLDOmXCvbcJzLZYj)